Democratic Groupthink

Senator Obama is the presumptive nominee. Senator Clinton plans to keep on campaigning. And with that we’ve entered a bizarre new world of amped up character destruction. Does this seem familiar? It should, since it resembles the political environment of the mid-90’s when Republicans were doing their level best to destroy Bill Clinton. Now…ironically…we see the same tired charges being slung by, of all people, the Obama supporters!

Clinton is destroying the Democratic party. The Clinton’s have buried so many bodies, we’ll never find them all. This is the crap that substitutes for reasoned political dialog, and…if you’re unlucky enough to have been a Clinton supporter, well then your a turncoat that’ll just as likely vote for McCain as support your party when the rubber hits the road—A page right out of some Rovian playbook.

Here’s the thing though. Not only does the the Democratic Party need every supporter from both sides of the primary debate, if the two sides come together, we’re unassailable. Do you hear that? Unassailable! So if the Obama supporters would just lay off for a few minutes; give a woman who ran a tenacious campaign her due; and explain to those of us on the fence why, exactly, we should support a Congressional dilettante, then maybe we’ll win this election.

In other words live up to your campaign slogan and stop acting like puerile children. The alternative is to keep telling the Clinton supporters to, “… drink the Obama Kool-Aid or f*ck-off,” and watch McCain steal the election out from under your golden boy.

It’s what the Republicans are counting on. I guarantee it.

42 thoughts on “Democratic Groupthink”

  1. You nailed it there, baby. My only concern, though, is not Democrats lining up behind the candidate because of the bitter campaign. It wasn’t particularly bitter, to be objective about it. My concern is racism sinking the Obama candidacy in November. Is it racist to note that this will be a factor? I don’t know and I honestly don’t care. I know people who would vote for any white Democrat against any Republican but who have told me that they won’t vote for Obama. (I begged them to reconsider and to not let their racism do something destructive to the entire country.)

  2. The Dems are in the process of shooting themselves in the head again. Would l I vote for McCain? Not in this lifetime, or any other. If we do have an “election”, will it change things for the better? Not likely.

    Obama supporters are people who became rabid for just this election. If they had been concerned for the last twenty years they might have learned a little tolerance and understanding for differing points of view. I don’t believe the Madrassa stories or that he’s a closet Muslim, I don’t like Obama because there is something about him that doesn’t ring true to me. I get almost the same physical reaction looking at him as I do when I see the Chimpleton or Turdblossom. And that can’t be good.

    How a once great nation devolved to picking the lowest common denominator in politics but they can’t do fractions in real life, is frightening.

  3. I agree. I would even welcome Senator Clinton on the ticket. We have bigger fish to fry and I would point to Obama’s behavior of late. He called off the dogs and is only saying positive things about Clinton and I have done the same. It’s the way to go. Even Carville is softening up.

  4. I disagree with Deb. I’m an old school anti-Reagan democrat, though I’m only in my 30s and I jumped on Obama because he’s very good.

    I supported Clinton for 16 years, she just would not fight Bush and too often helped him. Sure, Obama wasn’t a fighter in the Senate either, but he didn’t have the former President and the safest seat in the land on his side either. He wasn’t a wilting daisy, he was a back bencher. She was the star.

  5. Deb…oddly it’s not Obama for me. It’s the similarities between his campaign, his style, and that of Ronald Reagan. “Yes We Can!” affects me about the same as “Morning in America”.

    DBK… The racism is to be sure, deplorable, but so is the sexism coming from the other side. We need to to pull together not tell one half of the party, set your brain aside and get on board with the plan.

  6. SA… This is not so much about Obama, than the tone of unmitigated Obama adulation I’m reading in the press and on many blogs that I respect. That adulation is translating into a fair about of intolerance unfortunately.

    Lew… Basically what I said to the Station Agent, not ironic at all. If Obama wants to win, he and his supporters need to address the very real issues that a large fraction of the Democratic electorate feel Clinton is better equipped to handle. No Clinton supporter is going to be swayed by the reality distortion field that pervades Obama events and that shows up on so many blogs these days.

  7. I won’t vote for McCain.

    What I might do, is what the ultra-leftist progressives have been doing for the last two elections, and encourage everyone to vote Nader or just not vote at all.

    I’m willing to take the risk that the country/planet could probably survive another Bush term (which is what McCain would be)…and using the prog idiots’ favorite spoiler against them? Priceless.

  8. Cartledge… Your not serious?! I’ve have it on good authority that, if I ever ran for office, most of friends would emigrate.

    Happenstance… Don’t get me started on that waste Nader.

    I don’t really believe that any of the choices is going to diddly to give back the power that Bu$hCo has grabbed for the executive. So in that sense would a McCain presidency be union-destroying fiasco, perhaps not. Still don’t want to risk it though.

  9. They are looking reality straight in the eye, and denying it.

    What’s really bothering me are those who believe this could have been just a 3rd term for Bill. Would that be so bad. My biggest supporter has always been my wife, and vice versa.

    If I became president, it wouldn’t be such a bad thing to have a spouse who’s been there, and done that.

    But I digress. It’s looking more and more like the Democrats are getting ready to split into two new parties. Makes me sick. You are right, it would make much more sense to praise Hillary’s tenacity.

  10. Thanks Cartledge.

    BB… I’m willing to accept that Senator Clinton has no chance, but we need to keep focussed on beating McCain, and I don’t see that happening with Obama supporters pissing all over the Clinton supporters.

    Frederick… Not the campaign per se. The Station Agent is right, Obama has done a lot to keep the debate on a higher plane. I’m looking at what I see happening in the trenches, especially the blogs. Have you read Watergate Summer recently?

  11. Kvatch, I don’t want you to think that I hate Hillary just because I support Obama. I have said all along that if she won I would be supporting her just as much as I am currently supporting him. I am under no illusions that he is perfect. And there is no way I would vote for McCain. However, I have indeed seen some Hillary supporters who say they won’t vote for Obama and would either vote for McCain or stay home. We can only hope they will see the bigger picture by November and realize the future of the country depends on keeping John McCain out of office. And, if Hillary manages to get the nomination, I can only hope that the Obama supporters would see it as well.

  12. Kvatch, I don’t want you to think that I hate Hillary just because I support Obama.

    Mauigirl… Please don’t get me wrong, I don’t believe any such thing. I’m merely responding to the tone of threads such as the one we just came from.

    I think that the Clinton supporters that would vote for McCain is a small minority but a useful tool for the ‘Thuglicans and MSM to use to drive a wedge between segments of the Democratic party.

    Hillary won’t win the nomination. That much is assured, but we can still lose the election.

  13. Sadly, I am sure you are right about that. The Democrats seem to have a real talent for pulling defeat from the jaws of victory!

  14. wow…pretty rude post…and I guess that explains why you left the snitty comments over at my blog- wow…I am stunned I have known you and your blog a long time….or I thought I did…I am an Obama supporter- and guess what I did not drink any Koolaid….I am smart- well read on the issues and the candidates- I just don’t like it when ANY candidate uses Racism to get votes- it is that simple….I was hoping for a Race focused ON REAL ISSUES…and things that matter…and Hillary last week with her Hardworking White People crap lost ALL my respect- but to be real I have been polite until then – but that was it…I am done….

    But just to be clear- that does not mean I am an idiot or drink Koolaid- and hey- I do want us Unified, behind the Right Person so we can beat McCain….

    It would be Nice if the Hill supporters would also stop ripping Obama supporters to shreds….that would be nice too….jus saying’

    ( and yes I left you a comment on my Liveblog of the primary- and you might not like what I wrote- but I was not real happy with your condescending statements on my thread on my blog…)

  15. Enigma… My comments on Watergate Summer weren’t directed at you personally. I was very careful to differentiate the trend from the blog.

    It would be Nice if the Hill supporters would also stop ripping Obama supporters to shreds….that would be nice too….jus saying’

    I read a lot of blogs, and I have yet to come across a single example of a blog tearing into Obama the way I’m seeing blogs tear into Clinton.

    As for the Kool-aid reference. That has nothing to do with you and everything to do with me. Just look at the comments from guys like Christopher. This shill suggests that I’m a Hillary supporter. No better than McCain supporter. I’m nothing of the kind. I didn’t even vote for Senator Clinton.

    It’s all about the healing rifts in the party, nothing more–apparently a position that isn’t of interest these days.

  16. Kvatch, I’m not going to name names but there is a blog you must have missed, that is very much dedicated to ripping Obama to shreds. So it does happen on the other side too.

  17. “Have you read what has been happening on Watergate Summer lately” you write above in your comments? What was that about?
    Implying MY Blog is a Problem- yet have you read or commented on any of my posts that I have written in monthes- there are a wide range….and I have done NOTHING to deserve that negative serve up …..( So I was right you did come looking for a fight on my open thread tonight- even though I said I was venting about the Coverage and Hillary). So as someone that has worked hard on the Obama Campaign – I am supposed to let you sneak over and pick a fight with Obama supporters?

    You Imply above there is Some Kind of Problem with my blog…..Like I was starting a riot or saying something Destructive- What hell is your problem? You think that was very nice ? Was that your effort at Unity ?
    Way to go….

    And just to back up what Maui said- there are PLENTY of blog that rip Obama and his supporters to shreds- they are amoung us- and you read some of them….I won’t list them here- but I would be happy to send you an email so you can explore how visceral they can be…and just to be clear On MY blog- I am clear about Hillary and Her campaign Strategies- I have NEVER said a word about her supporters- NOTHING….so get your facts straight- before you go negatively describing MY Blog.

  18. Just to be clear here- Kvatch- your wrote above that there were Problems at Watergate Summer- citing it above as some kind of problem- and I guess You wanted Others to join you tonight on MY Blog- you wrote that at 7:28 ( I am not sure if that was East or West time) BUT it appears that was Before you commented over at Watergate Summer….My Blog is a place to be with others- I don’t support heated Forums and people that go off subject or want to fight- we all were talking about Hillary and Her Racist Campaign that we DON”T respect…that is our choice-and if we don’t respect that – that is our Choice…and you showed up and said that we had to respect her (cough) “tenacity”. I responded to you very strongly, mostly because you did not even acknowledge the Racism Issue we were discussing. Unity will happen when ALL issues are faced truthfully.

    You said it was not about me- but then I see you mentioned my blog above at 7:31- SO Clearly my Blog and me were a problem for you and I was targeted.

    That does not support your Unity Argument much – if you came to my blog ( after mentioning it here as a problem FIRST) and then came and Picked a fight.

    Unity is about Respect and Honesty about Real Issues….and it will have to start in Blogatopia first….

  19. “Have you read what has been happening on Watergate Summer lately”

    Enigma… All comments on Ragebot are Pacific time. Not sure what time zone you’re in, but my first comment on Watergate Summer was probably a few minutes before my comment here. Doesn’t matter though, suggesting that I targeted you or your blog is ridiculous. 9 of 10 Ragebot readers are Obama supporters, as are 9 of 10 bloggers in our circle. So why would they post on your blog if they really thought I was out to get you?

    You have tried to stress how polite, how even-handed, you are toward Clinton. I disagree. I think that your comments demonstrate the exact kind of hatred toward Clinton that you profess the Obama campaign is supposed not be about.

    So be it.

    I attack your rhetoric, and you take it personally–an affront to you and your candidate. So, how do you think Clinton supporters feel, when you attack their candidate?

    It’s hard for them to let go. Just as hard as it would be for you to let go of Obama, if the situation were reversed. It doesn’t matter one iota how bad a person Clinton is, or how bad you think she is. Clinton supporters only see the non-stop attacks against the woman they’ve been working to support, just as hard as you’ve been working to support Obama….

    …and that is the wedge that will keep the sides of the party apart.

  20. Wow- you posted it here_ I thought we were having an Offline conversation…

    You attacked, atleast you admit it- and you attacked me and what I wrote and that I support Obama ON MY OWN BLOG- VERY Uncool ( I only came here when I realized that you were mocking my blog and talking about me and my blog on your thread)….I blog about Hillary and her Rovian Antics- that does not make me Hateful- that means I am Honestly telling what I am witnessing…that does not make me “hateful” or even a bad Democrat….Racism is a serious issue- esp where I live- it leads to Hate Crimes and real pain….So it is a big deal. the Clintons have been doing all the dirty campaigning you can name from the race card to the religion card….and if Dems are silent on it- McSame can use the same tactics in the fall with a free pass by the Media and Dems- Blogatopia has kept the Dems and the Media Honest on alot of issues- from Bush Crimes etc. So why shouldn’t we blog about Clinton ‘s Rovian Campaign ?

    And just to be clear I blog about Hillary- I have never said a negative word against the Supporters of Hillary….the Wedge you mention is that Hillary has entitled anyone to feel righteous heaving Mud…and that is not okay…..And you say Hillary has been attacked- well I think for the most part she has gotten a free pass on alot of bad Manners- from the Bosnia Lie to the “Hard Working White People” line…and ( Bill with the Jesse Jackson and the fairy tale)….

    I have nothing against Hillary Supporters- never have…and have never gone to another blog and attacked anyone this election season- I have come here ONLY to defend my blog and my right to actually be an Obama Supporter…and because you came and picked a fight on my blog….I wrote you the rest of my answer in an email….

    We all need to come together in the Fall, but pretending that Hillary has not hurt people or Other Dems would be a big Fairy Tale at this point…WE ALL ARE HARDWORKING thanks to Bush….

    I won’t be back, because as an Obama Supporter I should never have some here- because your post makes it very clear that they should be judged ( and yet you don’t mention that Hillary supporters can be pretty destructive- you name Obama Supporters as the problem). The REAL problem is that the Clintons- Hill and Bill and Mark Penn ( the union buster) spent monthes dividing this Country up- and it will take months to heal WHAT they have done….

    I hope and pray that Blogatopia can help the healing….and unify before Fall….

  21. Wow- you posted it here_ I thought we were having an Offline conversation…

    No I did not. I wrote it here first, then copied it to you in email because I thought it adequately addressed the issue.

    You attacked, atleast you admit it- and you attacked me and what I wrote and that I support Obama ON MY OWN BLOG- VERY Uncool

    Well…I certainly did attack the tone of your rhetoric but never attacked you personally or the fact that you support Obama. But please, I encourage anyone who is interested to go and decide for themselves.

    …and yet you don’t mention that Hillary supporters can be pretty destructive-

    No, you’re right. I did not–an oversight on my part, but you, Obama, and his other supporters are the winners. You can afford to be magnanimous. In fact, you don’t have a choice.

    I won’t be back, because as an Obama Supporter I should never have some here-

    Well…our loss, since all Democrats–and all Republicans for that matter–are welcome on Ragebot. As you will always be welcome on Ragebot, Enigma. But I will not pretend that this blog is something it is not. It will delight some and offend others, and those groups will change day by day, topic by topic.

  22. I went back and looked at my Hillary posts- they actually are not “hateful” – and not that many- I have written two in the past three weeks besides the West Virginia Open thread- one was about the Math and the other about the Pitfalls of her Health Plan. AND Neither said anything negative about her supporters- just wanted to make sure we were clear on that point.

    I welcome all to my blog- as long as people treat each other with respect…I don’t think being attacked my Own Blog is being respected…I have been compassionate and caring to many for a long time, and I aim that people can come and not feel like they will be judged or attacked- but that is my blog. And the Clinton supporters are always welcome at my blog- because they don’t represent what Hill and Bill have been doing- I know that…

    About Unity- the Clintons will have to show some Grace- it is not just up to the Obama Supporters….it is about Not Attacking People, and to be honest the Clintons have never been about Showing Grace…and what they have worked for…and yes, this summer we will all have to work together…we can not have 4 more years of McBush as a Country- it will destroy us…..and until we have Regime Change – there are NO winners….that is how I look at it….

  23. Kvatch, while I am one of those people who would like to see the general election begin and get this primary season behind us, I have always said if Hillary was the nominee I would support her and vote for her. That said, I hold most of my contempt for the supporters on both sides who say they will not vote for the other. In the long run the most important thing is to make sure we don’t get a third Bush term via McLame. If another Republican sits in the White House we stand a big chance of losing the Supreme Court for many generations to come. Yes, I make fun if Hillary. Yes, I want the primaries to end. But in the long run, I am a Democrat.

  24. I won’t be back, because as an Obama Supporter I should never have some [sic] here-

    Hey, doesn’t Hill-critical satire count for anything? What am I, chopped liver-flavored tofu??? I do and do for you kids and this is the thanks I get. Shane! Come back Shane!

  25. “Not only does the the Democratic Party need every supporter from both sides of the primary debate, if the two sides come together, we’re unassailable. Do you hear that? Unassailable! ”

    Hey Kvatch. I’ve just read through this entire thread, and find that everyone seems to have missed this essential point. We have got to come together. I’ve said to my friends that if Clinton were the nominee, I would support and vote for her. I am an Obama supporter, and want him to be the nominee but recognize that it is essential that we set aside bickering and work together.

    This does not preclude snark – satire is fun, it blows off steam, we need it. But in the trenches, as we move forward, we have to grow up and be organized.

    Cheers to you.

  26. Robert… Me too, in that I will support either candidate. I have no patience for people who boast of “taking all their marbles and leaving the game”. But, that said, I’m disgusted with the corrosive rhetoric I see being slung on blogs I frequent. Though, obviously, calling that out isn’t going to get me very far–attacking the message being tantamount to attacking the messenger.

    Mr_Blog… In my book it does! Keep up the good work.

  27. Hey Diva! Long time no see (hear)! Good of you to stop by.

    The thread you should really read is the one on Watergate Summer (“Liveblogging the WV Primary”). That’s where the fireworks really went down.

  28. Kvatch, that’s sort of why I came on over – and have updated my blogroll with the new site, BTW. I didn’t participate in the live-blogging of the WV Primary for a number of reasons (mainly because I was watching a special on the 1996 Everest climb) but also because we all knew what the results would be.

    The point you made there, and here, has been completely misunderstood and the comments devovled into something that actually proved your point: if we don’t work together and show some actual grown up respect, we’ll wind up with McCain as president and more of the last 8 years. Calling Clinton names is not going to elect a Democrat. Won’t happen.

    I promise to not be a stranger. C’mon by my place too, buddy. I’ve resurfaced after a long period of sadness.

  29. Thanks Diva… nice to know that at least somebody thinks I wasn’t entirely out of my mind. :-) I promise not to be a stranger as well.

  30. Kvatch, for an example of a blog ripping into Obama, let me present this one:

    It’s far from alone. I think that a lot of it is disappointment and some is kind of delusional. And it foments unreasoning hatred toward the likely nominee.

    I’ve been appalled by Clinton’s campaign. She’s my senator. I voted for her twice, but not for this nomination. I really have tried to be restrained about bashing her. I don’t even really think it’s mostly her. I think she’s shown too much loyalty and too little judgment in her staffing decisions. Also, she’s not a natural on the stump to the degree that either her husband or Obama are. That’s hurt her a lot in making her sound false to some even when she’s being totally genuine. But the campaign has sucked in so many ways. So very many.

  31. Zenyenta… Though I appreciate the comments, I guess what I’m worried about is how to get the Clinton supporters on board. As I mentioned above, a lot of Obama supporters are acting like their campaign is entitled to the votes now that Obama has secured the nomination. Not so. You’ll never convince a young woman who has worked hard for the last year to support Hillary Clinton that she should support Obama by caller her candidate (and I quote): “The Borg Queen”, “…a racist cow”, or an …entitled Bigot Bitch”.

    Regardless or the truth or falsehood, the rhetoric is corrosive, and it won’t do anything more than alienate the Clinton supporters, which I think is a recipe for disaster. Sure, there are going to be blogs…many…that will continue to bash Obama, but Obama and his supporters have won. It’s time to be magnanimous.

  32. I’m hopeful that Clinton herself is going to try to begin the healing now. I just don’t think it’s reasonable to say that the nastiness of the rhetoric has been just on one side. It hasn’t. Reason will tell you that if you ever supported either of these people, then the right course of action is to support the winner of the contest. Out of McCain, Obama and Clinton, one of these policymakers is not like the other. When it comes to Obama and Clinton the differences in their stated goals are paper thin. Clinton is already saying that, more or less. I think that if she continues, then her last weeks of campaigning will be helpful rather than otherwise.

  33. It’s time to be magnanimous.

    I don’t think magnanimity has anything to do with it, unless it’s the way Obama seems to let the bashing slide off his back.

    What the Kyles (not sure I like the neologism but it’s what they’re being called) need to get over is this attitude, one running throughout society, that everything can be endlessly litigated. Until you “win,” or the other side gives up because they need to get on with their lives.

  34. I noted that in the Comments above you state there were “Fireworks” – to be honest- because not everyone was present the night the “Fireworks”, it is a problem when People go to Other People’s Blogs and Pick a Fight- and that is what happened, he even told people to come watch while he picked a fight….and then even wrote me offline and admitted attacking me on my blog- there was no remorse- that is NOT the way to healing….

    Time for a Little Honesty On How it Really Went Down Kvatch.

    ( I came over to check on you- actually felt bad about you- having known you for about 3 years…But now I see it was all a show for you….and so some of my readers would come over…We are ONE Community- What YOU did was divisive and downright hurtful- I have done Nothing to you…I even blogged the next day about how do we find Unity…..This I know you don’t find a path to Unity by picking on a Fellow Blogger on their own blog.)

  35. Enigma… I’ve given up trying to reason with you about this.

    You’ve decided how you want this to be perceived and no amount of reason or discussion on my part is going to change your mind.

    You banned me from Watergate Summer, I invited you back to Ragebot.

    You lied to your readers about my background, how often I visit Watergate Summer, and the last time I commented there, in order to lend weight to your arguments. I kept my arguments focussed entirely on your rhetoric and not on you. I did not lie to my readers or to yours.

    I invited people to read the thread for themselves. I assume that you still have a public blog, right? If not, then I suggest that you take Watergate Summer private so that you won’t have to put up with people who read blogs and make their own judgments.

    In short, you persist on trying to make me into some kind of ogre. Ragebot, Blognonymous, and maybe even a few Watergate Summer readers know me, and know that that is not true. I’ll trust their judgment.

    Time to let it go.

  36. I came here to try to mend fences with you…but I felt like watergate summer was a show for your entertainment. You even called it the “Fireworks” I did not ban you- never did. Just requested you not come and attack, I think that was fair.

    Now you are again are dictating what I should do- telling me to take my blog private? ( Sorry, but you don’t get to do that, and I am keeping it public, I don’t think you would want someone telling you what to do – would you?, or dictating your language or your comments on your own blog). It came off Judgemental the other night- and it does again here.

    Kvatch- ALL bloggers, and esp women have to have rules on the comment thread- after many cruel trolls , I don’t allow myself to be attacked- and that is what you did. ( You even admitted it). I simply requested that you not attack me OR how I run my blog or how I let people talk- you came and Judged and were critical of language there- the thing is – it is NOT your blog- you had NO right. And yes, if someone is a Bigot or a racist- I will say they are, again that is my right. ( esp on my own blog- I did not come to your blog and say it- I said it on my OWN blog).

    “Lied about your background” , I have no idea what you are talking about….In my post about Unity and also here I have told the truth…I never said anything about “your background”.

    By sending people”Have you seen what is going on at watergate summer”…you were looking for a fight and you were trying to be divisive…I did not ever want a fight….my blog is actually a place for people to talk and vent- but never to fight with each other….you know that if you have come there as long as I remember…My goal was for people to find some Humanity…there is enough fighting on other blogs…

    I came to check tonight…I actually had remorse that it spiralled into this..that it still felt ugly…but then when I came over I saw that I am just “fireworks” , a show to you….

    Unity will happen when People stop Judging and attacking. It is that simple.

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